In today’s podcast, I interview Dr. Neil Nathan about some controversial topics–and nothing is held back! We talk about what holds people back from fully healing, why the order to treating mold and Lyme is incredibly important, and the best testing for urine mycotoxins. We’re also touching on why your genetics (and your HLA-DR gene) might not matter as much as you think they do, whether or not antibiotics are necessary for Lyme patients, vaccines as triggers, the difficult-to-treat MARCoNS infection, and why pushing methylation can be a pitfall. If you or someone you love is dealing with mold toxicity or Lyme disease, then this is a must-listen.

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Download the Full PDF Transcript here.


00:01:44: Dr. Neil Nathan’s new book, Toxic

00:04:17: Main sources holding people back from healing

00:06:38: Frequency of Bartonella, viruses, parasites, retroviruses in Lyme patients

00:09:43: What order to tackle infections and pathogens in

00:11:37: Dr. Shoemaker’s protocol: where we differ in testing and treatment

00:13:52: Best urine mycotoxin testing for mold

00:15:56: Other resources for mold and Lyme clients: books and ISEAI, ILADS

00:20:27: Should I take cholestyramine or other binders?

00:21:56: Tremors, internal vibrations, depersonalization, and other mold symptoms

00:26:13: How genetics (and HLA-DR gene) play a role

00:29:48: Whether or not herxing is necessary for healing

00:32:39: Dr. Nathan’s background in medical school

00:34:54: Antibiotics and healing for Lyme patients

00:36:53: MARCoNS, BEG spray, and sinus infections

00:44:28: Lyme vaccines, flu shots, and vaccine triggers

00:47:43: Why we don’t treat methylation right away

00:49:51: Cell Danger Response


Visit Dr. Neil Nathan’s website here



  1. Interesting. I believe I got Lyme in Northern California in the early to mid 80’s from a mosquito swarm. My tests were pretty much negative after all this time but my symptoms over the years are classics textbook. A neurologist I saw in the 80’s suspected Lyme but since I had never heard of it, I pretty much ignored the idea and he apparently didn’t know of any tests at that time so nothing was done except to treat my symptoms. My symptoms are diagnostic most recently I’m told of Bartonella and Babesia. I am doing lots of detoxing stuff right now and have been for several years except that now I have a knowledgable practitioner. My worst symptom now is dizziness on standing. I have comparatively little pain now. I have tried everything I have heard of that might make me better. I don’t have a chronic stuffed up nose anymore. I no longer get herpes outbreaks and no longer take L-Lysine to prevent it. I have had herpes twice inside my left eye, once when I was 10 and once when I was 60. The infection when I was 10 caused scarring of my left cornea. No one knew then what it was and no treatment worked. It gradually went away over a 6 month period. When I was 60, I knew it was the same thing I had at 10. I immediately went to see an eye doctor and she knew it was herpes and treated me with some eye gel. I was recovered in two weeks with no residual. In my mid 20’s , I had to stop drinking coffee. It made me too shakey. Now I can tolerate a cup of coffee once in awhile and no shakiness. I had to quit nursing in early 2000 because my memory was so bad. It had been bad for awhile but it was getting worse. In 2012 I had sepsis after a surgical procedure which led to severe leaky gut after which I got even worse. We are healing that now. Great interview. I have also done lots of parasite cleansing also with more to come. I can see improvement but no where near well yet. Considering how long I have been sick and not having a knowledgable practioner until recently, I think I am doing pretty good considering how long I’ve been ill and all the complications I’ve had.

  2. Thank you for this great interview! I also just watched your two At-Home Lyme Program videos. You mentioned the protocol being holistic and natural. However, Dr. Nathan said in the interview that mostly, even though he uses other protocols along side antibiotics, none of his Lyme patients get better without going on antibiotics. If I do not have a practitioner, does your program deal with how to determine which antibiotics would be indicated, depending on co-infections, and how to go about getting tests and prescriptions and determining proper dosage?

    Thank you,

  3. Dr Jay,
    I feel like Dr Nathan was describing my son, currently Dr Nicks patient. His struggle seems endless.
    Did his book and or interview cause you to consider any new approaches to treating Lyme/co-infections/mold toxicity?
    I thought his comment on treating with antibiotics was very significant, stating that when coupled with supplements they are key to a patients recovery.
    Please share your thoughts.

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